Curse

Bug John · Aug 16, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

No, what I'm saying is that no one wants skins that are everywhere.

It's not that ANet made those skins drop in multiple places...it's that they made skins that were hard to get drop EASILY. Serpent Axe, Sephis Axe, Elemental Sword, Tyrian Sickle, Brute Sword.......just to name a few.

Leave SF in the game long enough, and Eternal Blades, Voltaic Spears, Celestial Compasses and BDSes will all be like Deep and Urgoz greens. Those greens may be nice looking, but nobody actually uses that garbage unless they're new to GW. Once "desirable" skins become too easily acquired, they stop being a way to personalize a toon or show off, and instead using them is a badge of shame. ("You're using THAT?")

People who can afford real expensive things (100e+) are not the majority...

Sure there are many showoffs in GW, but there are also many people who don't care, your point of view is biaised.

Asking for nerfs because they make "leet" things a bit more affordable is ridiculous.

Bryant Again · Aug 16, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

QQQQQQ.

Alright, since your reading comprehension is horrendously embarrassing:

It doesn't matter who uses it. What matters is it's there. It's bad game design, plain and simple.

X-Plosiv · Aug 16, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

So you're basically saying that it should be normal for PuGs to complete a HM Elite area that can drop some of the rarest weapons in the game (well if you can even call them that anymore) in under 30 minutes? (I say 30 mins just to allow for the bad teams).

How is this good for the game? A game that was once pouted as skill over grind.

Now all people do all day is grind UW/FoW for high end items out of the chest.

Shadow Form is bad for the game, along with 600/Smite. Players no longer attempt to play an area with balanced teams. They either perma 123 roll their face over the keyboard through areas, or get 600's to run them through dungeons because they are too lazy to have a go themselves.

This game is nothing like it used to be. Nowadays HM is just a joke with the current PvE meta. There is no skill involved with the majority of it and very little in the way of prestige anymore either to work towards.

Owner of the thread.

Bug John · Aug 16, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

So you're basically saying that it should be normal for PuGs to complete a HM Elite area that can drop some of the rarest weapons in the game (well if you can even call them that anymore) in under 30 minutes? (I say 30 mins just to allow for the bad teams).

How is this good for the game? A game that was once pouted as skill over grind.

Now all people do all day is grind UW/FoW for high end items out of the chest.

Shadow Form is bad for the game, along with 600/Smite. Players no longer attempt to play an area with balanced teams. They either perma 123 roll their face over the keyboard through areas, or get 600's to run them through dungeons because they are too lazy to have a go themselves.

This game is nothing like it used to be. Nowadays HM is just a joke with the current PvE meta. There is no skill involved with the majority of it and very little in the way of prestige anymore either to work towards.

maybe GW is just a game, and there's nothing like "what it should be" but rather "what you want it to be"

maybe GW has turned into a grindfest since it was the best way to keep players busy without adding real new content

maybe people grind elite areas because GW pve repeatability is close to 0 and they have nothing interesting to do (so, at least, let's make money to buy useless stuff)

maybe permas and 600 are just as easy to play as the whole pve, because you're not facing real players, there's no such thing as "skill" in pve, just knowledge and experience on how the AI behaves

maybe HM is a joke, when facing stupid monsters with 20 in each attribute and infinite energy, some people feel like using the most efficient way to slaughter them

maybe next time, before posting, you should think about what you're writing

UnChosen · Aug 16, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

So you're basically saying that it should be normal for PuGs to complete a HM Elite area that can drop some of the rarest weapons in the game (well if you can even call them that anymore) in under 30 minutes? (I say 30 mins just to allow for the bad teams).

How is this good for the game? A game that was once pouted as skill over grind.

Now all people do all day is grind UW/FoW for high end items out of the chest.

Shadow Form is bad for the game, along with 600/Smite. Players no longer attempt to play an area with balanced teams. They either perma 123 roll their face over the keyboard through areas, or get 600's to run them through dungeons because they are too lazy to have a go themselves.

This game is nothing like it used to be. Nowadays HM is just a joke with the current PvE meta. There is no skill involved with the majority of it and very little in the way of prestige anymore either to work towards.

So you're basically saying that EoTN dungeons and every other areas in the game are end game areas? Because you know...pugs exists OUTSIDE OF UW/FoW too.

And didn't you notice the whole "GIMME 7 HEROES NOW!" thread that is basically a thread whining about pugs failing even with the availability of perma. With perma 123 rolling everything shouldn't heroes be obsolete? WoW! Let's remove heroes and henches because all we need is a perma and rolling heads to complete the game...

Its annoying when people igoring 90% of the game and probably never pug asking for a blanket across the board nerf just because it doesn't affect them.

If UWSC or FOWSC is too fast or overpowered, then nerf the god damn areas themselves instead of the skills. If anything outside of UW and FoW there needs to be MORE buffs to skills because perma and other stuff doesn't seem to have any sort of effect.

Unreal Havoc · Aug 17, 2009, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

maybe GW is just a game, and there's nothing like "what it should be" but rather "what you want it to be"

Nothing like it should be? It was sold as a game that was claimed to be skill over time. No grind. Yeah right...

Quote:

maybe GW has turned into a grindfest since it was the best way to keep players busy without adding real new content

Or maybe players could actually try and do some of the other things there is to do in this game instead of farm one area repeatedly all day?

Quote:

maybe people grind elite areas because GW pve repeatability is close to 0 and they have nothing interesting to do (so, at least, let's make money to buy useless stuff)

If this game is that uninteresting anymore, why are they even playing it?

Quote:

maybe permas and 600 are just as easy to play as the whole pve, because you're not facing real players, there's no such thing as "skill" in pve, just knowledge and experience on how the AI behaves

Ok so with that said anyone should be able to clear UW HM without doing UWSC then right? Going by your logic it takes absolutely no skill whatsoever. All skill comes from knowledge and experience.

Quote:

maybe HM is a joke, when facing stupid monsters with 20 in each attribute and infinite energy, some people feel like using the most efficient way to slaughter them

You mean the most efficient way to be run through a dungeon?

Quote:

maybe next time, before posting, you should think about what you're writing

I think about it just fine thankyou very much.

Quote:

So you're basically saying that EoTN dungeons and every other areas in the game are end game areas? Because you know...pugs exists OUTSIDE OF UW/FoW too.

So dungeons are supposed to be easy?

Quote:

And didn't you notice the whole "GIMME 7 HEROES NOW!" thread that is basically a thread whining about pugs failing even with the availability of perma. With perma 123 rolling everything shouldn't heroes be obsolete? WoW! Let's remove heroes and henches because all we need is a perma and rolling heads to complete the game...

People want 7 H&H so they don't have to pug, not neccessarily because players are bad but also because they would just rather play on their own, or may not have much choice to. In any event 7 heroes aren't neccessary to the game. Personally I don't care about it.

Quote:

Its annoying when people igoring 90% of the game and probably never pug asking for a blanket across the board nerf just because it doesn't affect them.

How would you know what peoples ingame habits are? Do you really know them that well to make such an assumption?

Quote:

If UWSC or FOWSC is too fast or overpowered, then nerf the god damn areas themselves instead of the skills. If anything outside of UW and FoW there needs to be MORE buffs to skills because perma and other stuff doesn't seem to have any sort of effect.

Shards of Oor speedclear? Kathandrax speedclear? Bogroots speedclear? Foundry speedclear? Ravenheart Gloom dual clear? Sorrows Furnace dual clear? ToPK solo clear? Dungeon running? Outpost running? Boss farming? Easily the most reliable tanking ability in the entire game providing your perma doesn't suck balls?

Has no effect outside of FoWSC or UWSC huh?

gone · Aug 17, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

mystic regen was nerfed due to tantrums like this(was it terra tanks? cant' remember). I see NO reason why the devs shouldn't bend and buckle now.

BadgerzFTW · Aug 17, 2009, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

No, what I'm saying is that no one wants skins that are everywhere.

It's not that ANet made those skins drop in multiple places...it's that they made skins that were hard to get drop EASILY. Serpent Axe, Sephis Axe, Elemental Sword, Tyrian Sickle, Brute Sword.......just to name a few.

Leave SF in the game long enough, and Eternal Blades, Voltaic Spears, Celestial Compasses and BDSes will all be like Deep and Urgoz greens. Those greens may be nice looking, but nobody actually uses that garbage unless they're new to GW. Once "desirable" skins become too easily acquired, they stop being a way to personalize a toon or show off, and instead using them is a badge of shame. ("You're using THAT?")

That would takes ages for eternal blades to become so that everyone has them...you seem to think that these just pop out of the chest every 30 minutes. These things are rare, which is why they are expensive. Urgoz and Deep greens are worthless because all greens are these days and because they aren't rare.
EDIT: Bug John said it too.

Pony Slaystation · Aug 17, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I heard a rumor not long ago that ANet said they would not nerf Shadow Form.... I really hope that it's not true. I will throw a real life party when SF is nerfed.

UnChosen · Aug 17, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

So dungeons are supposed to be easy?

Easy enough that pugs don't need to repeat it over and over even with a perma...considering the piss poor quest reward, crappy drops, with something like a 0.0001% chance of getting a rare items out of the end chest after 2 hours+ with a "balanced" pug. I can complete UW/FoW/Deep/Urgoz with a normal balanced group faster and get far better drop compared to those dungeons.

Quote:

Shards of Oor speedclear? Kathandrax speedclear? Bogroots speedclear? Foundry speedclear? Ravenheart Gloom dual clear? Sorrows Furnace dual clear? ToPK solo clear? Dungeon running? Outpost running? Boss farming? Easily the most reliable tanking ability in the entire game providing your perma doesn't suck balls?

With the exception of Dungeon Running, I don't see many people actually do those stuff except for fun. Because all those dungeons STILL have shitty drops in relation to the effort required whether speed clearing or not. Same with the sorrow's furnace, and ToPK...

Outpost running can be done without perma.

As for dungeon running...people most get runs because they hate those dungeons with a passion, and only want to do it to have a completion icon on the map or Z coins...which once again goes back to the point that those dungeons are way too long and stressful in comparison to the reward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony Slaystation

I heard a rumor not long ago that ANet said they would not nerf Shadow Form.... I really hope that it's not true. I will throw a real life party when SF is nerfed.

When people are way too addicted a game...

Pony Slaystation · Aug 17, 2009, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

When people are way too addicted a game...

It's called a joke....

Martin Alvito · Aug 17, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

People who can afford real expensive things (100e+) are not the majority...

That used to be true before UWSC.

Most Eternal Blades are not in the specified price range any more. Only the req 9 ones still command 100+. They were over 250e as recently as six months ago. Get the picture?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

Sure there are many showoffs in GW, but there are also many people who don't care, your point of view is biaised.

Anyone that doesn't care about the issue doesn't need a vote and should be discounted. What matters is the sentiment of the players that care about it.

Who's the arbiter of bias here? You? How do you know my viewpoint isn't representative of the people that care about the issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

Asking for nerfs because they make "leet" things a bit more affordable is ridiculous.

You continue to attempt to twist the argument so that you can attempt to dismiss it with your opinion. The argument I have made is logically consistent and represents a viewpoint that differs from yours. You're not worth arguing with because you can't be bothered to have a discussion. Either that, or you think that rhetoric constitutes proof. Goodbye and have a nice life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerzFTW

That would takes ages for eternal blades to become so that everyone has them...you seem to think that these just pop out of the chest every 30 minutes. These things are rare, which is why they are expensive. Urgoz and Deep greens are worthless because all greens are these days and because they aren't rare.

You're wrong about the bolded statement.

Urgoz and Deep greens are worthless because the player base eventually figured out how to farm them to death. They drop more frequently than Eternal Blades, so the process took less time. It's still the same causal process. Given enough time (+/- 1 year would be my guess) and no SF nerf, the items I mentioned will be 100k or less.

Unreal Havoc · Aug 17, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Easy enough that pugs don't need to repeat it over and over even with a perma...considering the piss poor quest reward, crappy drops, with something like a 0.0001% chance of getting a rare items out of the end chest after 2 hours+ with a "balanced" pug. I can complete UW/FoW/Deep/Urgoz with a normal balanced group faster and get far better drop compared to those dungeons.

Wow you really want this game to be dumbed down for the masses don't you?

As for completing FoW faster with a balanced group maybe thats because you have done FoW that many times you know the area better. How many times have you actually done a dungeon to actually know it?

Quote:

With the exception of Dungeon Running, I don't see many people actually do those stuff except for fun. Because all those dungeons STILL have shitty drops in relation to the effort required whether speed clearing or not. Same with the sorrow's furnace, and ToPK...

What planet are you living on? You may not see PuGs do it that much but pretty much most guilds and/or alliances are speed clearing these dungeons nowadays.

Shitty drops? Frog Scepter, Emerald Blade, Bone Dragon Staff, Voltaic Spear (which was another dungeons I missed from my speed clear list), yeah they're really shit aren't they when a decent one can easily fetch you over 100k+.

As for taking effort, some might others don't. Bogroots is loleasy, a half decent team can manly it pretty quickly, and if they don't feel they can spike properly they can take slightly longer and full perma team it.

Quote:

Outpost running can be done without perma.

As efficiently? As reliably? Rememeber a permas selling point is invincibility. Why do you think most runners use permas?

Quote:

As for dungeon running...people most get runs because they hate those dungeons with a passion, and only want to do it to have a completion icon on the map or Z coins...which once again goes back to the point that those dungeons are way too long and stressful in comparison to the reward.

No, like I said most people are too lazy to want to make the effort. They'ld rather pay for a run because they don't want to get a group together and try the old fashioned way, playing the game.

Sarevok Thordin · Aug 17, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

So you're basically saying that it should be normal for PuGs to complete a HM Elite area that can drop some of the rarest weapons in the game (well if you can even call them that anymore) in under 30 minutes? (I say 30 mins just to allow for the bad teams).

How is this good for the game? A game that was once pouted as skill over grind.

Now all people do all day is grind UW/FoW for high end items out of the chest.

Shadow Form is bad for the game, along with 600/Smite. Players no longer attempt to play an area with balanced teams. They either perma 123 roll their face over the keyboard through areas, or get 600's to run them through dungeons because they are too lazy to have a go themselves.

This game is nothing like it used to be. Nowadays HM is just a joke with the current PvE meta. There is no skill involved with the majority of it and very little in the way of prestige anymore either to work towards.

True as it has ever been.

N E D M · Aug 17, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

i hate to admit it as i love to farm but UWSC is improper as is DTSC

MithranArkanere · Aug 17, 2009, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

How could it POSSIBLY be good for them? If it's the one thing they enjoy doing, and they can't do it, that's good for them?

You are Hillary Clinton, and I claim my five pounds.

If people that do drugs can't do drugs, that's good for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

[...]
No, like I said most people are too lazy to want to make the effort. They'ld rather pay for a run because they don't want to get a group together and try the old fashioned way, playing the game.

More like some people is too lazy, but others will get to the outpost and find no one to form groups, since they are being runned, so all that's left fr them is looking for a runner too.

snoozer80 · Aug 17, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Some ppl want to nerf UWSC cuz they like to play UW for 4 hours NM with PUG's and for them this is essential for PvE to play looong.. O_o

Targren · Aug 17, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

People say they don't care about the economy and yet they continue to farm their butt of to get money, and then act shocked when they find out all their valuable stuff is worthless. Shrug it off all you want, but when ecto is worth 2k and obsidian edges are worth 20k and you are suddenly poor, don't complain to us. We warned you.

Awesome. Then I won't have to farm for 6 months to get Obby armor for my Necro and Mesmer (the only ones that look good, IMHO). Win-Win.

[QUOTE=MithranArkanere;4807065]If people that do drugs can't do drugs, that's good for them.

Yes, I'm familiar with the thought(I use the term loosely) process that you used to come up with the statement, which is why I compared you to Hillary Clinton. Other than your own kids, you have no business deciding what is "good" for anyone, in spite of what they want.

BadgerzFTW · Aug 17, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

That used to be true before UWSC.

Most Eternal Blades are not in the specified price range any more. Only the req 9 ones still command 100+. They were over 250e as recently as six months ago. Get the picture?

Anyone that doesn't care about the issue doesn't need a vote and should be discounted. What matters is the sentiment of the players that care about it.

Who's the arbiter of bias here? You? How do you know my viewpoint isn't representative of the people that care about the issue?

You continue to attempt to twist the argument so that you can attempt to dismiss it with your opinion. The argument I have made is logically consistent and represents a viewpoint that differs from yours. You're not worth arguing with because you can't be bothered to have a discussion. Either that, or you think that rhetoric constitutes proof. Goodbye and have a nice life.

You're wrong about the bolded statement.

Urgoz and Deep greens are worthless because the player base eventually figured out how to farm them to death. They drop more frequently than Eternal Blades, so the process took less time. It's still the same causal process. Given enough time (+/- 1 year would be my guess) and no SF nerf, the items I mentioned will be 100k or less.

Ok, you're right. Greens with rare skins are still worth something, but it's not important. The thing is, you can't compare Urgoz/Deep greens to Eternal Blades. The greens were expensive to start out because they were new and Urgoz/Deep were new. The prices were bound to plummet with inscriptions and their rarity. Doing U/D normally was enough to drop the price. Eblades are very rare. Eternal Blades WILL go down. Anything will if you give it enough time. Honestly, Eternal Blades becoming less rare/expensive is no reason to nerf a skill. E-peen is not game breaking. If they nerf this skill, I'm hoping it's for a reason that actually affects the game.

Aeon221 · Aug 17, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

QQQQQQ.

Off-topic QQQQQ.

(This discussion isn't about HOW to nerf SF, in case you haven't figured it out. There's a million +1 ways to nerf SF, and yours aren't any cleverer. )

"Once again, I'd like someone to give a reasonable explanation why they CARE if other people use SF."

HAY THAR ED COMMA SPECIAL.

Before you hit your iddqd button and roar through some more UW, think a lil bit. Anet previously nerfed two common farms with creature spawns that made it harder to pull off the same farm, but not impossible. Griffon farms with Kephket, and 55ing in UW with Dying Nightmares. IOW a precedent exists for nerfhammering farms with critters.

My suggestion is to leave the iddqd alone, since some people apparently shoot blood from their eyes at the thought of it going away, and just make it harder with a few CG rangers.

Since CG hits through the block effect, even though the attack misses, it'll make the build harder without making it non-functional. IOW allowing skilled players to go through with silly build, but punishing people who suck.

KADUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.